Was Jesus in paradise the same day he died on the cross?
What happened during Paul’s Damascus Road conversion?
According to the bible is a person saved by faith or grace?
How many sons did Abraham have?
When did the transfiguration occur?
Did Jesus carry his own cross?
How many animals did Jesus ride when entering Jerusalem?
When did the fig tree whither?
What time of day was Jesus crucified?
How many stalls of horses did King Solomon have?
How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign?
Was vegetation created before or after man?
Were animals created before or after man?
How long after the resurrection did Jesus ascend to heaven?
According to the bible, has any man seen God?
Which Jesus birth story is correct?
Which genealogy is correct? Author of Luke’s or Genesis?
How old was Abram when he left Haran?
According to the bible, does God change his mind?
What was the count of David’s census?
How old was Jehoiachin when he started to reign?
How many people did Jashobeam kill?
Who incited King David to take a census?
How many chief officers did Solom put in charge of building his temple?
How many pomegranates for Solomon’s temple?
How many robbers taunted Jesus on the cross?
Was John the Baptist Elijah according to the New Testament?
Judas Iscariot’s death (The betrayer of Jesus). Did he hang himself or did he just fall face forward and die?
(Mat 27:5 NRSV) Throwing down the pieces of silver in the temple, he departed; and he went and hanged himself.
(Acts 1:18 NRSV) Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out.
Jesus promises a criminal on a cross next to him that they will be in heaven together that particular day. Other verses that are probably embellishments by the gospel authors state that he is to stay dead for three days in the heart of the earth and then ascend to heaven later.
(Mat 12:40 NRSV) For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth.
(Context: Jesus is hanging on a cross talking with a criminal hanging on another cross)
(Luke 23:42-43 NRSV) Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." He replied, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise."
Two contradicting versions of Paul’s Damascus Road conversion. Did his companions hear the voice or didn’t they?
(Acts 9:7 NRSV) The men who were traveling with him stood speechless because they *heard the voice* but saw no one.
(Acts 22:9 NRSV) Now those who were with me saw the light but *did not hear* the voice of the one who was speaking to me.
Is a person saved by grace or are works also required? Paul and James seem to disagree on this.
James: (James 2:24 NRSV) You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
Paul: (Gal 2:16 NRSV) yet we know that a person is justified not by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ.
James: (James 2:17 NRSV) So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.
Paul: (Titus 3:5 NRSV) he saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, …
James: (James 2:20 NRSV) Do you want to be shown, you senseless person, that faith apart from works is barren?
Paul: (Rom 3:28 NRSV) For we hold that a person is justified by faith apart from works prescribed by the law.
James: (James 2:14 NRSV) What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you?
Paul: (Rom 4:5 NRSV) But to one who without works trusts him who justifies the ungodly, such faith is reckoned as righteousness.
The author of Hebrews contradicts Paul on how many sons Abraham had.
In one letter Paul says Abraham had two sons, in the another letter the author of Hebrews (possibly Paul or someone else) says Abraham offered for human sacrifice his "only" son.
Abraham had (Gen 16:15) Ishmael and (Gen 21:2) Isaac. Notice that Ishmael was born first, when Abraham went to sacrifice Isaac he had two sons at that time.
(Here Paul says Abraham has two sons)
(Gal 4:22 NRSV) For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and the other by a free woman.
(Here the author of Hebrewis says "only" son)
(Heb 11:17 NRSV) By faith Abraham, when put to the test, offered up Isaac. He who had received the promises was ready to offer up his only son,
Note that the author(s) of Genesis contradict themselves on this matter. Here Abraham’s two sons are mention: the first-born Ishmael and Issac.
(Gen 17:19 NRSV) God said, "No, but your wife Sarah shall bear you a son, and you shall name him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his offspring after him.
(Gen 17:20 NRSV) As for Ishmael, I have heard you; I will bless him and make him fruitful and exceedingly numerous; he shall be the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation.
Here an author of Genesis refers to the second born Isaac as Abraham’s "only son":
(Gen 22:12 NRSV) He said, "Do not lay your hand on the boy or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from me."
(Thanks to Curt van den Heuve for pointing out the contradiction within the book of Genesis itself)
The authors of Matthew and Luke don’t agree about when the transfiguration was supposed to have occurred.
(Mat 16:28-17:2 NRSV) Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of Man *coming* in his kingdom."
*Six days later*, Jesus took with him Peter and James and his brother John and led them up a high mountain, by themselves. And he was transfigured before them,…
(Luke 9:27-29 NRSV) But truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God."
Now about *eight days*
after these sayings Jesus took with him Peter and John and James, and went up on the mountain to pray. And while he was praying, the appearance of his face changed, and his clothes became dazzling white.
The authors of Matthew and John disagree on Jesus’ robe color.
(Mat 27:28-29 NRSV) They stripped him and put a *scarlet* robe on him, and after twisting some thorns into a crown, they put it on his head. They put a reed in his right hand and knelt before him and mocked him, saying, "Hail, King of the Jews!"
The Greek word for scarlet here is kokkinos:G2847
2847. kokkinos, kok’-kee-nos; from G2848 (from the kernel-shape of the insect);
crimson-colored:–scarlet (colour, coloured).
(John 19:2-3 NRSV) And the soldiers wove a crown of thorns and put it on his head, and they dressed him in a *purple* robe. They kept coming up to him, saying, "Hail, King of the Jews!" and striking him on the face.
The Greek word for purple here is porphurous:G4210
4210. porphurous, por-foo-rooce’; from G4209; purpureal:–purple.
The authors of Mark and John disagree about whether Jesus carried his own cross.
(Mark 15:20-24 NRSV) …
Then they led him out to crucify him. *They compelled a passer-by*, who was coming in from the country, *to carry his cross*; it was Simon of Cyrene, the father of Alexander and Rufus. Then they brought Jesus to the place called Golgotha (which means the place of a skull). And they offered him wine mixed with myrrh; but he did not take it. And they crucified him…
(John 19:16-18 NRSV) Then he handed him over to them to be crucified. So they took Jesus; *and carrying the cross by himself*, he went out to what is called The Place of the Skull, which in Hebrew is called Golgotha. There they crucified him…
The author of Matthew contradicts the author of Mark on the number of animals Jesus is riding into Jerusalem.
(Mat 21:7 NRSV) they brought the donkey and the colt, and put their cloaks on them, and he sat on
*them*.
(Mark 11:7 NRSV) Then they brought the colt to Jesus and threw their cloaks on it; and he sat on
*it*.
The authors of Matthew and Mark contradict each other about when the fig tree withered (at once or the next morning):
(Mat 21:19-20 NRSV) And seeing a fig tree by the side of the road, (Jesus) he went to it and found nothing at all on it but leaves. Then he said to it, "May no fruit ever come from you again!" And the fig tree *withered at once.*
When the disciples saw it, they were amazed, saying, "How did the fig tree *wither at once?*"
(Mark 11:14 NRSV) (Jesus) He said to it, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again." And his disciples heard it.
(Mark 11:19-21 NRSV) And when evening came, Jesus and his disciples went out of the city. *In the morning* as they passed by, they saw the fig tree withered away to its roots.
Then Peter remembered and said to him, "Rabbi, look! The fig tree that you cursed has withered."
Was Jesus crucified in the morning or the afternoon? The authors of Mark and John contradict each other.
(Mark 15:25 NRSV) It was
*nine o’clock in the morning* when they crucified him.
(John 19:14-16 NRSV) Now it was the day of Preparation for the Passover; and *it was about noon*. He said to the Jews, "Here is your King!"
They cried out, "Away with him! Away with him! Crucify him!" Pilate asked them, "Shall I crucify your King?" The chief priests answered, "We have no king but the emperor."
Then he handed him over to them to be crucified. So they took Jesus;
How many stalls of horses did Solomon have? 4 or 40 thousand?
(1 Ki 4:26 NRSV) Solomon also had *forty* thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.
The Hebrew word for forty here is ‘arba’iym
705. ‘arba’iym, ar-baw-eem’;
multiple of H702; forty:–forty.
(2 Chr 9:25 NRSV) Solomon had *four* thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horses,
…
The Hebrew word for four here is arba:
702. ‘arba’, ar-bah’;
masc. ‘arba’ah, ar-baw-aw’; from H7251; four:–four.
Chronicles and Kings contradict each other.
How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign? forty-two or twenty-two?
(2 Chr 22:2 NRSV) Ahaziah was forty-two years old when he began to reign; he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother’s name was Athaliah, a granddaughter of Omri.
The Hebrew word for forty here is ‘arba’iym (Sound familiar?)
705. ‘arba’iym, ar-baw-eem’; multiple of H702; forty:–forty.
(2 Ki 8:26 NRSV) Ahaziah was twenty-two years old when he began to reign; he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother’s name was Athaliah, a granddaughter of King Omri of Israel.
Hebrew word for twenty here is ‘esriym:H6242
6242. ‘esriym, es-reem’;
from H6235; twenty; also (ordinal) twentieth: –[six-] score, twenty (-ieth)
Did the vegetation come before or after man was created? Genesis chapter one (the first creation myth) disagrees with chapter 2 (the second creation myth).
(The Elohist’s creation story says the *plants came first*)
(Gen 1:12 NRSV) The earth brought forth vegetation: plants yielding seed of every kind, and trees of every kind bearing fruit with …
(Later that week in the Elohist’s creation story)
(Gen 1:26 NRSV) Then God said, "Let us make humankind in our image,…
(The Yawist’s creation story says that *man came first*)
(Gen 2:5-7 NRSV) when no plant of the field was yet in the earth and no herb of the field had yet sprung up–for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was no one to till the ground; … then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground, …
The two different Genesis creation myths don’t agree on the order of creation of man and animals.
(Elohist - Animals then man)
(Gen 1:24 NRSV) And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures of every kind: cattle and creeping things and wild animals of the earth of every kind." And it was so.
(Gen 1:27 NRSV) So God created humankind in his image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
(Yahwist - Man then animals)
(Gen 2:7 NRSV) then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living being.
(Gen 2:19 NRSV) So out of the ground the LORD God formed every animal of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name.
The Gospel of Luke and the Book of Acts contradict each other about how long Jesus hung around after he was supposed to have resurrected. Acts says 40 days and the Gospel of Luke says 1 day.
(Acts says 40 days)
(Acts 1:3 NRSV) After his suffering he presented himself alive to them by many convincing proofs, appearing to them during *forty days* and speaking about the kingdom of God.
(Gospel of Luke says 1 day)
(Luke 24:1 NRSV) But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb,
(Luke 24:13 NRSV) Now on that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem,
(Jesus appears to them)
(Luke 24:15 NRSV) While they were talking and discussing, Jesus himself came near and went with them,
(Luke 24:29 NRSV) But they urged him strongly, saying, "Stay with us, because it is almost evening and the day is now nearly over." So he went in to stay with them.
(After eating super…)
(Luke 24:33 NRSV) That same hour they got up and returned to Jerusalem;
(Luke 24:50-52 NRSV) Then he led them out as far as Bethany, and, lifting up his hands, he blessed them.
While he was blessing them, he withdrew from them and was carried up into heaven. And they worshiped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy;
The Bible contradicts itself about whether any man has ever seen God.
(The author of the Gospel of John and Paul the Apostle say no one has *ever* seen God)
(John 1:18 NRSV) *No one has ever seen God*…
(1 Tim 6:16 NRSV)
…*whom no one has ever seen or can see*;
(Here Moses sees the God’s backside)
(Exo 33:20 NRSV) But," he said, "you cannot see my face; for no one shall see me and live."
(Exo 33:23 NRSV) then I will take away my hand, and you shall see my back; but my face shall not be seen."
(And here Moses, Aaron, Nadab, Abihu, Issac, Jacob, and Amos get a full frontal view)
(Exo 24:9-10 NRSV) Then Moses and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel went up, and they saw the God of Israel. Under his feet there was something like a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness.
(Gen 26:2 NRSV) The LORD appeared to Isaac and said…
(Gen 32:30 NRSV) So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, "For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life is preserved."
(Amos 9:1 NRSV) I saw the LORD standing beside the altar…
The author of Matthew and the author of Luke contradict each other on their lists of 12 disciples.
The author of Luke has Judas the son of James instead of the author of Matthew’s Thaddaeus.
(Luke 6:13-16 NRSV) And when day came, he called his disciples and chose twelve of them, whom he also named apostles:
Simon, whom he named Peter, and his brother Andrew, and James, and John, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James son of Alphaeus, and Simon, who was called the Zealot, and Judas son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.
(Mat 10:2-4 NRSV) These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon, also known as Peter, and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; Simon the Cananaean, and Judas Iscariot, the one who betrayed him.
The author of Matthew and the author Luke composed completely different birth stories for Jesus.
The gospels of Matthew and Luke were written ~70 years after Jesus was supposed to have been born.
It is probably not a well known fact, but Christian tradition has combined the two stories of the gospel of Matthew and the gospel of Luke to form the story told at Christmas time today (gospels of Mark and John have nothing to say about Jesus’ birth).
But the stories in the gospel of Matthew and the gospel of Luke only agree on 2 points:
1) Mary and Joseph are the parents
2) Jesus was born in Bethlehem (placed there to make him look messianic)
Otherwise they are completely different.
(from the first two chapters of the gospels Matthew and Luke)
The author of Luke’s genealogy doesn’t match the one in Genesis.
(Note: Arphaxad is Arpachshad)
(Luke 3:35-36 NRSV) …
son of Shelah, son of Cainan, son of Arphaxad, …
(Gen 11:12 NRSV) When Arpachshad had lived thirty-five years, he became the father of Shelah;
The bible contradicts itself on how old Abram was when he left Haran.
205 Terah’s age when he died 70 Terah’s age when Abram was born —- 135 How old Abram was when Terah died
The Bible says that Abram was 75 years old when he left Haran *after* Terah died.
(Gen 11:26 NRSV) When Terah had lived seventy years, he became the father of Abram, Nahor, and Haran.
(Gen 11:32 NRSV) The days of Terah were two hundred five years; and Terah died in Haran.
(Gen 12:4 NRSV) So Abram went, as the LORD had told him; and Lot went with him. Abram was seventy-five years old when he departed from Haran.
(Acts 7:4 NRSV) …After his father died, God had him move from there (Haran) to this country in which you are now living.
The author of Numbers says God does not change his mind. The prophet Jeremiah says he does.
(Num 23:19 NRSV) God is not a human being, that he should lie, or a mortal, that he should change his mind.
Has he promised, and will he not do it? Has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?
(Jer 26:19 NRSV) …and did not the LORD change his mind about the disaster that he had pronounced against them? …
In their accounts on a census of Israel, the census numbers of 1 Chronicles and 2 Samual do not agree.
Israel Judah 1 Chronicles says: 1,100,000 470,000 soldiers. 2 Samual says: 800,000 500,000 soldiers.
(1 Chr 21:5 NRSV) Joab gave the total count of the people to David. In all Israel there were one million one hundred thousand men who drew the sword, and in Judah four hundred seventy thousand who drew the sword.
(2 Sam 24:9 NRSV) Joab reported to the king the number of those who had been recorded: in Israel there were eight hundred thousand soldiers able to draw the sword, and those of Judah were five hundred thousand.
How old was Jehoiachin when he started to reign?
2 Kings says he was eighteen and 2 Chronicles says he was only eight.
(2 Ki 24:8 NRSV) Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign; …
(The Hebrew words for 18 are "shemoneh" for 8 and "asar" making the number 18)
083. shemoneh, shem-o-neh’; or shemowneh, shem-o-neh’; fem. shemonah, shem-o-naw’; or shemownah, shem-o-naw’; appar. from H8082 through the idea of plumpness; a cardinal number, eight (as if a surplus above the "perfect" seven);
also (as ordinal) eighth:–eight ([-een, -eenth]), eighth.
6240. ‘asar, aw-sawr’;
for H6235; ten (only in combination),i.e. -teen; also (ordinal)
-teenth;–[eigh-, fif-, four-, nine-, seven-, six-, thir-] teen (-th), + eleven
(-th), + sixscore thousand, + twelve (-th).
(2 Chr 36:9 NRSV) Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign; …
(The Hebrew word for 8 here is again "shemoneh" but the accompanying word "asar" that would make it 18 is missing, beware, the NIV mistranslates this as eighteen to avoid the contradiction)
How many men did Kind David’s warrior Jashobeam kill at one time (with just a spear no less)? One account says he "only" killed three hundred and the other says eight hundred.
(1 Chr 11:11 NRSV) This is an account of David’s mighty warriors: Jashobeam, son of Hachmoni, was chief of the Three; he wielded his spear against three hundred whom he killed at one time.
(2 Sam 23:8 NRSV) These are the names of the warriors whom David had: Josheb-basshebeth a Tahchemonite; he was chief of the Three; he wielded his spear against eight hundred whom he killed at one time.
1 Chronicles says that Satan incited King David to take a census and 2 Samuel says God incited him.
(2 Sam 24:1 NRSV) Again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, "Go, count the people of Israel and Judah."
(1 Chr 21:1 NRSV) Satan stood up against Israel, and incited David to count the people of Israel.
1 Samuel says David killed Goliath and 2 Samuel says Elhanan did.
(1 Sam 17:50 NRSV) So David prevailed over the Philistine (Goliath) with a sling and a stone, striking down the Philistine and killing him; there was no sword in David’s hand.
(2 Sam 21:19 NRSV) Then there was another battle with the Philistines at Gob; and Elhanan son of Jaare-oregim, the Bethlehemite, killed Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam.
How many chief officers did Solomon put in charge of building his temple?
2 Chronicles says two hundred fifty, 1 Kings says five hundred fifty.
(2 Chr 8:10 NRSV) These were the chief officers of King Solomon, two hundred fifty of them, who exercised authority over the people.
(1 Ki 9:23 NRSV) These were the chief officers who were over Solomon’s work: five hundred fifty, who had charge of the people who carried on the work.
How many pomegranates for Solomon’s mythical temple? 2 Chron says one hundred, 1 Kings says two hundred.
(2 Chr 3:16 NRSV) He made encircling chains and put them on the tops of the pillars; and he made one hundred pomegranates, and put them on the chains.
(1 Ki 7:20 NRSV) The capitals were on the two pillars and also above the rounded projection that was beside the latticework; there were two hundred pomegranates in rows all around; and so with the other capital.
Were both robbers crucified with Jesus taunting him or was only one of them mocking him and the other repenting?
The author of Matthew and the author of Mark disagree with the author of Luke.
(Luke 23:33 NRSV) …they crucified Jesus there with the criminals, one on his right and one on his left.
(So we have Jesus in the middle of two robbers, three crucifixions)
(Mat 27:41-45 NRSV) In the same way the chief priests also, along with the scribes and elders, were mocking him, saying,
"He saved others; he cannot save himself. He is the King of Israel; let him come down from the cross now, and we will believe in him….
*The bandits who were crucified with him also taunted him in the same way.*
From noon on, darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon.
(Luke 23:39-44 NRSV) *One of the criminals* who were hanged there kept deriding him and saying, "Are you not the Messiah? Save yourself and us!"
But the *other* rebuked him, saying, "Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation?
And we indeed have been condemned justly, for we are getting what we deserve for our deeds, but this man has done nothing wrong."
Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." He replied, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise."
It was now about noon, and darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon,
The three synoptic gospels have John the Baptist recognized as Elijah (in some places by Jesus),
but the author of the gospel of John has John the Baptist saying he is not Elijah.
(Mat 17:12 NRSV) but I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but they did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of Man is about to suffer at their hands."
(Mat 17:13 NRSV) Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them about John the Baptist.
(John 1:21 NRSV) And they asked him, "What then? Are you Elijah?" He (John the Baptist) said, "I am not." "Are you the prophet?" He answered, "No."
Hey capella.
Pretty normal list of contradictions. These ones are your garden variety ‘contradictions’…they tend to be the most quickly highlighted ones.
Dig deeper and you can find even more apparent contradictions. It’s all in the interpretation! Try the measurements from the Levitical towns for a start….
But…
…ask any conservative evangelical scholar and they can quickly account for these ones.
Steve,
I’ve been through round after round of debate on these contradictions with people who claim they are matters of interpetation or context, etc… I’ve also read apologetic books.
They are not a matter of interpretation or context. Judas for example either hung himself or he fell down and his stomach busted open.
He either bought the field or threw the coins down and the priests bought the field.
People who try to say that he hung himself and later fell off of a cliff or say he impaled himself on a large spear are only trying to rationalize away obvious contradictions.
Agreed. Judas is not an easy one to deal with.
I must admit, people presenting to me the bible as though it is 100% fool proof I find irritating, but they are acting on a faith statement. I prefer to beleive in a perfect God and an imperfect world, and the bible, as print on a page, is part of this imperfect world….but the bible is a useful doorway to His perfect Word.
Let’s face it, a close examination of the Scriptures does reveal some questionable facets of the text. But then, my faith is only guided the text, not determined by it.
God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Bible…haha NOT! God the Holy Spirit of course.
Steve,
Good for you. I would like to think that if there was a God, that he/she would insist on people discerning him/her through skeptical means as in science and related disciplines.
God popping in to say hello wouldn’t hurt either?
Yeah, it’s mad when He does pop in. The audible voice of God is pretty mad too.
Some interesting stuff for sure, however, according to the KJV of 2 Samuel 21:19…”Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew THE BROTHER OF Goliath the Gittite”……not Goliath himself, who had already allegedly been killed by the boy David with a rock and sling many years before.
Newer versions of the Bible, such as the New Revised Standard edition referred to in the original post, have omitted “the brother of” for some strange reason.
My main point against the Bible (or Christianity) being true has always been, if God requires so much of us individually, and if he is willing to condemn us eternally for not following “his” word, then why are we expected to somehow differentiate between those who are giving us the “true” word of God and the “false prophets”?
In other words, like some of the previous posts touched on, why wouldn’t an “omniscent, or omnipotent” God simply appear to EACH of us individually and explain EXACTLY what is required, as he did in the story of Adam and Eve, rather than just tell a few people and leave the rest of us to try to decipher who is telling us “God’s Truth” and who is not?
Then again if God is “all knowing” then why even bother creating a World and man “knowing” that man was going to sin, knowing that God would have to come to Earth as a human and DIE for those “sins”, etc.?
Why put the “tree of the knowledge of good and evil” in the garden if he “knew” that eventually the woman (and later man) would eat of it?
Why would he be so worried that man would then eat of the “tree of Life” and “become as we are” that he had to kick them out of the Garden he had prepared for them?
Why did Adam and Eve basically have just ONE commandment (do not eat of the tree)?
Why would God only write down 10 commandments for us if he was later going to “show” all of these other men throughout the Bible “new” laws for us to follow? Like He didn’t have time to write all of the other stuff down?
So many questions.
Having attended a Bible school for 13 years (my Grandfather and 6 of his brothers were preachers) and many, many church services in my young life, I have been given many “reasons” for these things, but none of them have been at all satisfactory in my personal opinion and I certainly wouldn’t refer to these “explainations” I have been given over the years as “Answers”.
I also find the fact that many Christians seem to almost exclusively follow Paul’s version of “Christianity” which is very different than Jesus’ own version (or at least the “gospels” representation of Jesus’ teachings), to be strange. Personally I call these people “Paulians” rather than Christians.
Overall I found this to be a very interesting website capella, keep up the good work. ;-)
Spencer, here’s another one about the Adam and Eve story. A&E, when placed in the Garden, are wholly innocent–they know nothing of good and evil, so they wouldn’t have understood that it was wrong to eat from the tree. Yet they were punished for it. What would we think of a father who threw his toddler out of the house for doing something he/she had been told not to do?
I too have struggled with the notion of the idea of God being both omniscient and omnipotent yet still having to go through all the motions even though He knows what the outcome will be.
One believer explained it in a way I have never thought of before: “The choices we make because of the Free Will God has given us and the resulting trials and tribulations are not for God’s sake but for our own.” We are the ones who, like children, need to find out for ourselves the consequences of the actions we take.
I found this to be quite clever. She said this was our path so that we would understand why some of us end up worthy of Heaven and others the place without A/C. But then I started thinking about God again: completely aware of everything that will ever come to pass and ultimately in control of it all. Even if I have free will, this God already knows before I do each and every choice I will make.
So, I’m put here to learn why I will go to Hell in the end for disbelieving. But He already knew that. Seems like a waste of effort for my benefit. If I rot in fire and brimstone, I’m not going to be too fussy about WHY I ended up there. Who would I complain to?
An omnipotent and all-seeing deity would know the origin and, if applicable, end of Existence. Every molecule in the cosmos, every word ever spoken or thought never shared, on countless worlds for all eternity.
Can you imagine how absolutely boring and pointless the very job of running the Universe under such circumstances would be to any such sentient entity or entities? If this is truly the case, I openly admit I would feel sympathy not for the Devil, but for God.
Shabazz,
I see where you are coming from, and I have often asked myself this same question… God gave us free will for one reason.. so we would CHOOSE to believe He is here.. so we would CHOOSE to follow Him. It would be ultimately pointless to MAKE us do what He willed. And honestly don’t you think it would be even more boring for God if He made us all do exactly what he wanted?
Plus.. there has to be someone who created everything. Time and the universe probably did begin from an infinitely small (if there is such a thing in science) point, but how? DNA.. a code.. cannot be created by a random process. It is a fact that random processes do not create codes. Musical notes are a code; computer codec is a code, both resulting in an organized implimentation… made by someone who can think logically. The weather is a random process. It is many many years older than DNA, yet it does not even come close to doing the complex things that even one living human cell can do. The sheer complexity of the physical world implies the existance of a Creator.. a living, THINKING Creator.
And if there is such a Creator, I think He probably has the right to operate the thing the way He wants to, so I won’t question how He does things. I will just obey Him.
About 2000 years ago many people saw something so amazing that it has completely changed the course of history since then.. and those people were willing to take that belief.. rooted in what they actually witnessed with their own eyes, mind you… to their own horrible horrible deaths. That is historical fact. I definitely would not do that unless I was sure that what I saw was true. Would you? Ask yourself that question honestly, and search for the literal truth about history from things other than atheist websites and atheist books. I challenge you to study all the FACTS and history behind Jesus, and don’t be scared to find out something that goes against your present understanding of them… then try to hold on to your beliefs as an atheist.
The point wasn’t whether they had free will or not in the Adam and Eve myth. It’s whether they had the knowledge which would have given them to option to make the right decision. Without the proper knowledge, you can have all the free will you want and there’s no way you can make a “right” decision.
Clearly the author who made up this story was too primitive in his/her thinking to realize this.
And no, there didn’t have to be someone to create everything. However if you conveniently make such a rule, to be consistent you have to also require someone to make that someone and so on. See “how to spot poor arguments.”
2000 years ago a tiny religion started which would have been a small footnote in history had not Constantine (the Roman Emperor) happened to have converted 300 years later. Other religions have also changed history (as Christianity, mostly for the worse). That’s obviously not an argument for validity.
As far as studying the facts and not being afraid for your beliefs, I challenge you to do the same.
Capella
You would be surprised at the hoops Christian apologetics are willing to jump through in an attempt to explain away the contradictions that plague them. Not only do they completely ignore Occam’s Razor but they use circular reasoning, begging the question, the appeal to authority and perhaps one of the most major fallacies of all… starting with a conclusion and leafing through everything to find evidence to support it. In short, not how reasoning works.