The Sphinx and the Pyramids of Giza were all built by 2500 BCE, before the Bible says Noah’s flood occurred.
According to the Bible in the year 2348 BCE the earth was plunged into a global flood which killed everyone everywhere because everyone was doing everything naughty (except Noah and his immediate family).
How do we know the Bible says 2348 BCE for the flood? Because in the 17th century an Irish fellow named James Ussher figured it out by carefully adding up the ages of the ancestors of Jesus as listed in the Bible all the way back to Adam. He also determined that according to the Bible the universe was created in 4004 BCE.
But hold on….among other historical problems with these dates is the fact that Egypt has been continuously occupied from 5400 BCE through today.
That not only means there were people living continuously in Egypt before, during, and after the flood was supposed to have happened and killed everyone according to the Bible, but that there were people living in Egypt even before the Bible says the Earth and the Universe were created in 4004 BCE.
How do we know how long people were living there? Through archeological finds, carbon dating and Egyptian record keeping we know that people were continuously living in Egypt back to at least the 5400 BCE date.
So… no, the pyramids have never been underwater.
References:
Wikipedia article on Ussher’s Chronology
http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/prehistory/egypt/history/timeline.html
http://www.egyptologyonline.com/chronology.htm
Interesting. A decisive blow to YEC’s (as well as all other archaeological evidence in the world :P).
Thanks. I think the Egyptian chronology is very iron-clad. Hard to argue against for those claiming an accurate literal interpretation of the Bible.
i do not understand the two links you provide both say that the egyptian experience began approx 3000 bc you got an extra thousand years for whatever you want to throw in there, be it christian or non christian what makes the egyptian historians more accurate than the biblical type. what survived the flood….only a big stone structure…..expertly constructed. what say ye
I’m not sure where you’re getting that the two links I provided begin Egyptian experience in 3000 BCE. Both say that the first Egyptians are detected around 5400 to 5500 BCE, not 3000 BCE.
It’s not that Egyptian historians are more accurate. It’s that there is a *continuous history* laid out by Egyptian historians that spans way before, during and after the Bible flood was supposed to have occurred. Doesn’t make any sense if they were wiped out by a flood.
There were several pyramids that predate when the Bible flood was supposed to have occurred. None have any evidence of being underwater.
ummm thats definitely not an official date of te Flood. MOST creationists would put the flood well before 3000bc and possibly as far back as 5-8000bc
I don’t know about MOST creationists. Most creationists are laypeople because they are the only people that proponents of creationism can sway. These laypeople creationists more than likely mistakenly believe the Bible is correct in it’s genealogies. The scientific community of course doesn’t buy any assertion that puts the earth at 6000-10,000 years old because of the mountains of data which show the earth is billions of years old.
Any young earth creationist that claims that the flood happened before 3000 BCE has to then explain why the genealogies in the Bible are grossly wrong (which they are anyway because they contradict each other as well).
Christians that are old earth creationists have no problem with science because they think the Bible isn’t accurate or reliable as a scientific document.
Atheists of course have no problem recognizing that the Bible isn’t reliable as any kind of document.
Excellent point that you make capella. There are also other places in the world that show no signs of a global flooding ever taking place.
I would like to point out as well, what about plants being on board Noah’s Ark? Am I suppose to believe that they just walked upon the Ark as well? And what about the animals having birth defects and dying off due to in-breeding?
The whole story doesn’t make sense. Santa Claus and his flying rein deer is more plausible than this story.
If one wants to base their truths on beliefs as oppose to basing their beliefs on truth then I guess that’s their gig, so long as they don’t expect me to believe it.
In my opinion the Bible might as well start out as saying; “Once Upon a Time”.
Fish are also a problem. Most marine fish would be killed by diluting the sea water. Most fresh water fish would be killed by increased salinity. Corals just couldn’t survive either
Yes, good points. I have mentioned the water problem in one of my other articles:
Animal Cruise the Love Ark
Thanks, I love the picture on that. Do you mind if I use it on my blog sometime?
What were Noah’s last words?
Who brought those bloody termites on board?
Yes, you’re welcome to use any of my pictures. Good joke. :^)
Thanks.
Your site was one of the first that I came across when I was shedding my christianity a few years ago. Good to see you are still posting.
Jericho, a city in BIBLICAL land, has been occupied since 10,000 bc. They’ve also found a 6000 (Or is it 8000?) year old remnants of a village in Israel.
Oh the irony.
I am curious about the dating guessed at by scholars for Biblical generations. I do see that Egyptian history does not mention a flood; however, that simply implies that young-earth creationists have taken too much upon themselves to give precise dates for vague references. God alone speaks for Himself.
And so far he’s been very quiet, almost as if he didn’t exist.
The Noah story of God wiping out most the human race may have some origin in historical fact. Toba supereruption was a volanic eruption that messed up the earths climate to such and extent that it nearly led the human race to extinction.
So the Noah story might be a work of fiction that blended a story of a real major flood in the tigris valley and old handed down oral storied of the Toba event.
What does it matter, God can do what ever he wants!
Well if a person imagines a being that can do absolutely anything and resides himself to that, then that let’s him off the hook for having to apply any kind of logic to this god to discern it’s existence.
I could believe in omnipotent pixies if I want. They’re just changing the universe to fool you, but I know better, right?!?
Not to mention the fact that if a Gawd actually did exist, and It allowed the kind of suffering that we see all around us, then It would have to be one hell of a serious PRICK. The “existence” of Satan is just a little too convienient, don’tcha think?
As a devout LastThursdayist I am obliged to tell you that you are dead wrong. The universe, including the pyramids and all other archeological findings, was created last Thursday. The Invisible Pink Unicorn (blessed be her holy hooves) planted all the fossils just to test our faith.
Don’t believe everything bible says. Most of it is complete crap.
Great post! Found it a couple years after you posted it too. I reposted it in my blog and gave you full credit. Here: http://iantimberlake.wordpress.com/2011/03/19/the-egyptians-existed-before-the-universe-existed/
I’ve been going to my friends church services on Sundays and Thursdays every week because they invited me (knowing my beliefs). I like going because in the past it always has reaffirmed my atheism. They were shocked when I told them that. I also get into multi-hour long conversations with them and the entire time I ask and ask and ask all sorts of questions that relate to the contradiction to proven science fact and biblical references and beliefs and I NEVER ONCE can get a logical answer out of them. It’s always ‘I don’t know’ or ‘Only god knows that’. The conversation usually ends with them saying, ‘sometimes you just need a little faith’. FacePalm.
If God is willing but not able to vanquish evil then he is not omnipotent
If he is able but not willing he is malevolent
If he is both able and willing and able then whence evil cometh?
If he is neither willing nor able then why call him god?
Jesus is the story of an omnipotent being (God) impregnating a virgin women with himself (abstinence 99.99999% effective) thus enabling her to give birth to himself so he could sacrifice himself to himself.
Religion is bullsh*t
Why is the Geenolgy of Jesus an inaccurate way to caculate the time of everything…NEWSFLASH – CALENDARS HADN’T BEEN INVENTED!!!
I know I’m super late on the discussion here, but here’s my two cents.
Everyone knows that the main characters of the Bible (read in this case: Noah) were African or Middle Eastern and resided close to either the Tigris, Euphrates, or Nile River. All three are famous for their flooding, which even today with modern technology can prove to be an overwhelming flood plane. These people were alive at a time when the size of the world was a mystery and their perception of the size of the world depended on how much of it they could see or travel. It’s no surprise that a “Great Flood” that covered the world was in actually local flooding of one of these rivers, or perhaps a swelling of both the Tigris and Euphrates that was more severe than the average floods of that time. To a person alive thousands of years ago, these raging floods could seem to blanket the earth in water for 40 days and 40 nights-which, in itself, is a rather redundant phrase. (I think it was Eddie Izzard who pointed out that when you stay in a hotel for five days, they usually don’t ask if you’d like to stay for the nights as well). So let’s call the story of Noah a severe local flood in the Middle East. Let’s call the burning bush a painstaking record of the flood season that allowed Noah to accurately predict the rise in local rivers and streams. Let’s also agree right now that at no point was this entire planet was engulfed in a flood for 40 days (and the nights as well).
Kevin, I think your position is reasonable. Maybe the Bible’s flood myth is rooted in some localized flooding experience? Of course in that case mankind couldn’t have been wiped out as the Bible literalists claim. These myths often involved water as they are essentially birth/creation stories. Water of course symbolic of amniotic fluid with it’s roots back to the earliest forms of worship (fertility worship). Baptism is another symbolic birth gesture involving water. The passing through the Red Sea by the Israelites is yet another example of water/birth (in this case a nation) and of course Genesis 1 has the earth appearing out of water.
Can’t we all just acknowledge that the Bible should be taken just as serious as The Odyssey or Shakespeare’s plays, and move on?
All three may have ties to current(at that time) and past historical events in some way, all three use extensive metaphor and symbolism, and all three attempt to convey current(at that time) values and ideals. Only one, for some reason, is thought of as factual, but really, that’s just because Homer was a geek and Shakespeare was a hipster.
And nobody loves geek or hipsters. Society just beats them up and waits for them to create computer software.
In reality, though, both were more “epic” than the Bible. Hahaha, pun intended.
Simim…I completely disagree. The Odyssey and Shakespeare’s plays should be taken much more seriously than the bible…
unbound- Simim is right, as a piece of literature the Bible is extremely important, even if factually it is as useful as the Odyssey. It has influenced many many pieces of great art, and a basic understanding of it is very useful as a tool for understanding other literature.
Forgive me if my argument contains factual errors, but if this “God” created everything, then he would have had to have been the one who created “Satan”. If this is the case, with him being the “all-knowing” force that he is, wouldn’t he have just not created the evil- because certainly he would know what he was doing, would he not? Perhaps after creating the evil he would still be able to rid the world of it, seeing how he created* it and all.
I place my beliefs in firm, cold, hard facts.
*yet to be proven
I’m writing a book called, “How the Great Flood worked.” and here is a short summation.
None of ye agnostics better steal me idea .. it’s mine all mine .. and God’s. So, here’s how it works:
The earth was much smaller (in diameter) 4k years ago than it is now. The continents were all bunched up together – but the earth has been expanding like a balloon after the flood, drifting the continents apart – that’s how kangaroos ended up just in Australia.
The pyramids at the time of the flood were a vast underground empire that was part of Atlantis. The whole structure bubbled up after the flood and therefore never got wet.
Oh I love this!
Simim- I do agree with you to an extent.
Alexandra- I do not agree with you at all. Yes, the bible has inspired many wonderful things. But, that does not mean the people who created those things would not have been inspired elsewhere. inspirations from the bible are simply incidental. Just as other religious “documents” have inspired great things, all have inspired great and unnecessary tragedies.
as any religious person would tell you
carbon dating is a lie made up by the godless scientists in an attempt to lead people away from god
so hah there goes your theory
ofcourse this all crazy talk
but considering they believe the bible and some even claim dinosaurs and humans walked this planet at the same time.
this “new” argument about the biblical timeline conflicting with the scientific one is probably not going to chance their mind
as for every1 else, well we already knew all this
Your picture of the Pyramid with scuba was certainly amusing. As to the facts of the two links you sent, they certainly bear looking at again. I have never heard this theory before.
The comments were so refreshing. Nothing better than seeing intelligent people have an intelligent conversation about pure ignorance. Also no through out “god’s going to punish you in hell” or “i’ll pray for your soul”. I love atheism..getting sh*t done!
This is my favorite comment thread of this site. So many clever comments.
Again on the subject of is this blog worth it, (and I have to post this often because a lot of people do think it’s a waste of time) there are some people who believe that do change their minds. I’m one myself. If it wasn’t for people like Carl Sagan and Issac Asimov and others who promote science and dispel ignorance, I might still be believing although I always had a big problem with all the killing in the old and new testaments and the contradictions of science all the through the bible as well as the apparent mistakes and contradictions.
I have had people take the time to write me that this site along with other great sites on the internet stirred their thinking and helped them awaken out of religion. So even if just a few are helped I feel good about it. I would have loved all this back in the 70s when I was knee deep in it. I would have been resistant but I’m like so many others, when something makes sense it sticks in the back of my mind no matter how I resist it and it eventually wins out in my thinking.
this is a great thread and a great site. and i love the discussion. totally uplifting and positive, despite claims otherwise. great stuff.
This is the perfect website for everyone who wants to understand this topic. You know so much its almost hard to argue with you (not that I actually will need to_HaHa). You definitely put a new spin on a topic that has been written about for a long time.
Excellent stuff, just great!
I’m extremely inspired together with your writing skills and also with the structure in your blog. Is that this a paid topic or did you modify it yourself? Either way keep up the excellent quality writing, it is uncommon to peer a great weblog like this one these days..
[...] This is an interesting question and one I’ve never thought of before. Creationists with no education in geology often say that scientists are “misinterpreting” geological strata when they say it proves an old earth. They argue that the strata actually shows a very quick laying down of sediment consistent with a world-wide flood. I wonder if they realize how easy it would be to prove their claim if they could just show flood damage in the pyramids? [...]